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TI5过后,各大战队都进入了转会期。其中已经确定的是RTZ加入EG,Aui_2000被踢,Secret战队重组。
Secret战队在重组前无疑是所有人公认的TI5夺冠热门,然而他们仅仅止步在第七名。在转会期,RTZ在直播中对Secret的沉沦做出了自己的看法,认为Kuroky是“元凶”,Kuroky也在过后做出了回复。
8月16日,原Secret战队的3号位Zai对rtz与Kuroky之间的“互掐”做出了自己的看法。
以下是Zai的翻译:
大家好。
我一直想把自己关于dota的一些想法分享给大家,可是一直找不到一个合适的渠道。简单来说吧,其实我对这一所谓DOTA闹剧最大的想法就是,在论坛上经过激烈的讨论之后,所有的事情都会被曲解。
我会在这篇blog里就dota爱好者和dota选手之间的关系问题说一下自己的想法。可能我对于事情的理解并不全面,也不知道自己写下这些东西究竟想达到什么目的,但是我想自己比一般的dota粉丝可能了解的更多。我觉得就自己身处的位置而言,有责任去尝试以一种客观和无偏见的角度来表达一下我的观点。
请原谅可能在表述过程中让人觉得我有点刻意拔高自己,希望您能够理解。我本意并不想惹怒任何人,也不想抬高自己的地位,我只是想试着去对事情形成一种客观的认知。而且有时我的表达方法看上去可能有些古怪和做作,希望这样能够有效的表达出我的想法。
首先要说的是,Reddit可能是最大的dota讨论聚集地。不管是新闻,冲突,闹剧,任何和dota相关的内容都可以在这里看到。
首先请将dota世界和现实世界当做两种完全不同的存在,这样的比较可能会让人觉得有点老套,但是为了更好的构筑我的想法,希望您能接受这种设定。比如在Reddit的讨论中,人们在讨论esports时会参照真正的竞技体育。
而我们在对比dota的新闻和现实世界的新闻时,会发现这两者有非常大的区别,比如dota信息的最大集散地Reddit,在现实世界中就很难找到一个对应的参照物。取而代之,我们被迫把这里当成了一个新闻批发中心类似的东西。
在Reddit上,被称为信息或者新闻的东西都是没有节制的,普通的用户需要靠自己去判断信息是否真实有效,而在真实世界中,新闻是有节制的,是受到监督的,社会存在法律和规则去阻止错误信息的传播。在Reddit这里,正确的帖子和编造的帖子被人们混到一起来讨论,人们没有方法,也没有意愿去控制信息的传播。说真的谁能成为信息的管理者呢?可能只有很少的人有相应的知识和能力去管理这些信息,然而这些人并没有管理论坛的想法。
总的来说,我想说的就是在Reddit上缺少多信息和新闻的高质量管理,同时也缺少对新闻的客观报道,因为人们根本就不了解事实的真相。其实大多数的讨论根本就不关心什么真相,只是纯粹的异想天开和自圆其说。
这就带来了第二个问题。
当错误的信息在扩散的时候,普通的用户根本无法意识到他们面对的是虚假的内容,人们只是对他们眼前所看到的内容发表自己的观点。人们根据信息的内容讨论,分析,表达自己的感受和设想当时的情形。人们会赞同他们觉得合理的帖子。用户A基于队员A的帖子所发表的观点已经有了600赞,已经处在非常醒目的位置。
请不要认为我在批评这些发帖子的人,这只是论坛讨论的天*而已,大部分用户热衷讨论的主流观点其实是不正确的,这些讨论也并没有什么大错。问题是,由于Reddit拥有大量的用户,那些完全错误的观点,被人们当作真相接受了。结果就是一大堆用户确信事情的走向是如何的,并且和任何不赞同他们观点的人去争辩。
最后,我想联系以上讨论的内容说一下我们目前的状况。在Reddit上,我们现在主要有两个争吵的议题:第一个是Aui离开EG,第二个就是RTZ和Kky的争论。在浏览了大量的帖子之后,如前所述,我发现主流的观点被严重的影响的操控了。比如说,如Blitz指出的,大多数人都认为RTZ是坏人,这一意见主要是基于一个视频,视频中RTZ用手指指向Kuro。
所有人都觉得自己了解了这些表现背后的实际情况,然后飞快的对这些行为进行判断并得出自己的结论,然后他们发表了自己的结论,这就是我们前面提到的第二个问题。
这是选手在面对公众讨论自己内部问题的一个非常大的缺点,因为公开说这些事情,除了得到一个破坏*的结果以外不会对事情有任何积极的影响。我认为,只有一个理想的情况下,对公众公布这些事情是合情合理的。那就是就一个特定的问题公开表达一个总的来说有瑕疵的观点,也就是说,需要断定公众应该知道事情的真相,并且能够公然的指出并纠正错误的观点。而经过Reddit大量的讨论之后,这一例外显然没有发生。
就我个人来说,我其实不想自己对本事件的看法,然而我觉得对大家说出我的想法是我的责任。
据我所读和所见,RTZ在本事件中没有任何的错误,所有所有的一切,包括他所写和所说的内容,都没有错,没有偏见而且几乎全都是对的。
而大多数Kuro的表述都是在误导他人,试图把批评从自己身上转移开来。
原文:
Hello。
I’ve often thought of expressing my thoughts regarding Dota related things to the public, unfortunately I could never find an appropriate medium。 To put it simply, my biggest problem with opinionating on alleged Dota drama is that everything is paraphrased and put on forums with the intent of discussion。
I’m writing this blog to put in writing some of my thoughts and problems that I see with public interactions between Dota followers + Dota figures。 It might not lead to a general understanding nor do I know what I’m trying to achieve, but I feel obliged to point things out or at least attempt to in an objective and unbiased way because I feel that I am in a position where I have a greater understanding than the average Dota fan。
My intention is not to offend anyone nor to publicly raise my own status, I am merely trying to create awareness。 Also at times my writing may seem awkward and pretentious, but I hope it will suffice as a means of funneling my thoughts。
If it is not abundantly clear Reddit is the leading website regarding news, drama and general tension in the scene, anything related to Dota on any website will eventually find its way to Reddit。 This will be my first problem to address。
Consider the Dota world and the real world to be two separate entities。 It may seem tacky and stereotypical but for the sake of making it easier for me to formulate my thoughts please assume this is the case。 For example, it’s commonly done in the average Reddit discussion, where people reference athletic sports when talking about esports only for the sake of convenience。
If we do the same again with information and news, there is a major difference between Dota and the real world。 As I previously stated Reddit is the center of Dota related information, but to find its respective partner in the real world one couldn’t find an appropriate opposite。 Instead we are forced to assume that it would be a large news outlet or something of sorts。
On Reddit what classifies as information or news is not moderated, it’s up to the average user’s own capacity to judge whether or not it’s valid, where as in the real world where journalism is widely moderated and monitored, there are rules put in place to prevent misinformation to be spread。 This is where posting and shitposting becomes relevant, because there are no means to control the information that is spread, nor is there any incentive to。 Realistically who would be such a moderator? Only a select few could possess the knowledge to moderate such information and those people have no ambition to moderate a forum。
Anyway, what I’m trying to say is that there are no quality controls for information and news that finds its way to Reddit and there is a lack of objective reporting on situations because there is a substantial lack of facts, because most discussions have no interest or regard for facts as they are purely speculation and theorizing。
This leads to my second problem。
When misinformation is spread, keep in mind the average user is not aware that this is fallacious information, users start to form their own opinions based off what they see in front of them。 The information which is available is used to start discussions between users where they discuss and openly talk about what they think, what their feelings are and how they perceive the situation。 Users upvote whichever post they deem reasonable and user A who just recently formed his opinion based off player A’s post now has 600 upvotes and has the most visible post next to the player on the subject。
Please don’t assume that I’m criticizing the people who create such posts, it’s only the nature of discussion that a major opinion which in truth is completely false is held dear by a major part of users partaking in the discussion and there’s nothing wrong with that。 The problem is because of the vast amount of users that Reddit has this opinion which is in essence entirely fallacious, is perceived as truth and accepted as the way things are perceived。 As a result we end up with a large amount of users convinced things are a certain way and will argue against anyone who begs to differ。
To finish up, I’d like to relate these things to our current situation。 We are currently in a state where there are 2 major debates on Reddit, the first one is Aui’s departure from EG, and the second one is the Arteezy versus Kuro debate。 Browsing through posts and threads on these matters, I see a general opinion which is heavily influenced and manipulated as a result of what I’ve written earlier, for example as Blitz pointed out, there was a major opinion that Arteezy was the bad guy due to a video of him pointing fingers at Kuro。
Everyone feels awfully entitled to know what’s going on behind the scenes and are awfully quick to jump to conclusions regarding these matters and when they do jump to conclusions, they post their conclusions and we end up with problem number 2。
There is already a major flaw in players talking about internal issues with the public, because in reality there is no incentive for these things to be said other than to publicly create an opinion which is destructive for the receiving end。 There is but one ideal reasoning behind going public with these things and it’s the only in my opinion justifiable one。 That is to publicly address a general flawed opinion on a certain problem, that is, to deem that the public deserves to know the actualities of a matter, to blatantly point out and correct an opinion which is incorrect。 This is why you see statements being made after a giant Reddit wave of opinionated users get to the people who are involved, this one being no exception。
Personally I didn’t want to release my thoughts on this matter but because it went public I feel obliged to say my piece。
Arteezy is not from what I’ve read and seen wrong on any of the matters he’s touched on。 All in all the things I’ve seen him write or talk about are not false nor are they heavily biased but they are mostly true。
Much of Kuro’s statement is misleading and only serves to shift the blame away from him。
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